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Lady Aja Caldari	Posted - 2010.02.03 02:09:00 - [1] so there i was omw out of jita when all of a sudden i am at maybe 5% armour and thinking great it had to happen with 1b isk of **** in my cargo hold.. then i go into warp and carry on... sometimes suicide gankers win ( well mostly they win ) sometimes they dont.. but also heard that the CSM have brought the issue up for suiciders insurance vs concord. so should be interesting.
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.02.03 02:21:00 - [2] Cool story bro. All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Mealamo	Posted - 2010.02.03 02:28:00 - [3] why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a ****e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil
Lord Windu Echelon Solutions Echelon.	Posted - 2010.02.03 02:50:00 - [4] So what? I have lost one battleship and a Brutix through failed gank attempts, the Brutix was due to me being pretty new to Eve and in my excitement I forgot to get into rang. Most gankers will have had failed attempts at some point I would think, all part of risk vs reward. And as for the insurance stuff being brought up by the CSM, that just means that the gankers will be more selective in choosing their targets. ------
Lady Aja Caldari	Posted - 2010.02.03 03:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Mealamo why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a ****e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil there was 4 blue prints of 5 runs faction heatsinks but!!! when they sell for 55m each thats over 1b isk. so yeas 1b isk cargo PS you didnt read how many runs was on each bpc did you?
Rotting corpse	Posted - 2010.02.03 11:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Rotting corpse on 03/02/2010 11:41:01 Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Mealamo why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a **e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil there was 4 blue prints of 5 runs faction heatsinks but!!! when they sell for 55m each thats over 1b isk. so yeas 1b isk cargo PS you didnt read how many runs was on each bpc did you? You meant 550mil or 40 blueprints or you're an idiot. Choose wisely. Or each run sells for 55M... which you should point out next time by saying BPCs sell for 220M each. And to conclude my rant... isn't it annoying when you're reading someone's signature and don't even realize it? Now get the server running or the Damsel('in distress') gets it (up her a)!
Fornicis Caldari APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2010.02.03 11:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Rotting corpse Edited by: Rotting corpse on 03/02/2010 11:41:01 Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Mealamo why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a ****e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil there was 4 blue prints of 5 runs faction heatsinks but!!! when they sell for 55m each thats over 1b isk. so yeas 1b isk cargo PS you didnt read how many runs was on each bpc did you? You meant 550mil or 40 blueprints or you're an idiot. Choose wisely. Or each run sells for 55M... which you should point out next time by saying BPCs sell for 220M each. Wait...what? 4, 5run BPC's is 20 faction heat sinks, at 55mil each thats 1.1bil there, obviously you have to factor in production costs but thats not the point.
Neoenderli	Posted - 2010.02.03 14:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Rotting corpse Edited by: Rotting corpse on 03/02/2010 11:41:01 Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Mealamo why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a ****e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil there was 4 blue prints of 5 runs faction heatsinks but!!! when they sell for 55m each thats over 1b isk. so yeas 1b isk cargo PS you didnt read how many runs was on each bpc did you? You meant 550mil or 40 blueprints or you're an idiot. Choose wisely. Or each run sells for 55M... which you should point out next time by saying BPCs sell for 220M each. Someone failed math :(
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.03 14:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Mealamo why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a ***e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil there was 4 blue prints of 5 runs faction heatsinks but!!! when they sell for 55m each thats over 1b isk. so yeas 1b isk cargo PS you didnt read how many runs was on each bpc did you? Sounds more like 300-400mil is right. BPC value =/= Value of built item runs. That's the potential value, not the actual value of the item you hold. As a (perhaps slightly unfair, deal with it) comparison: A 10-run Rokh BPC is not worth 1b.
Mograph Caldari Starscream Industries IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.02.03 14:38:00 - [10] Quote: also heard that the CSM have brought the issue up for suiciders insurance vs concord. so should be interesting. CSM CAN SUCK MY HAIRY BALLS! Suicide ganking is a part of eve and should remain a viable source of income, if they ditch insurance payouts they should ditch the sec hit as well. being -10 is a pain in the ass sometimes. and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing.

Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet	Posted - 2010.02.03 15:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Neoenderli Someone failed math :( haha www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Krikx Gallente Forgotten Gods Fear Th3 Vampires	Posted - 2010.02.03 15:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Lady Aja so there i was omw out of jita when all of a sudden i am at maybe 5% armour and thinking great it had to happen with 1b isk of **** in my cargo hold.. then i go into warp and carry on... sometimes suicide gankers win ( well mostly they win ) sometimes they dont.. but also heard that the CSM have brought the issue up for suiciders insurance vs concord. so should be interesting. CSM talking about insurance won't save you if you carry 1 bil isk worth of stuff and arean't careful.
Mealamo	Posted - 2010.02.03 16:05:00 - [13] insurance or no insurance it won't make a blind bit of difference. You know why... because there are ALWAYS mongs who travel through high sec in something as thin as paper with goodies i.e like the mk1 badger untanked i saw leave jita 45mins ago with 2 x centus mods and a faction cruiser nearly 2.5 bil right there. You carebears really need to get a grip
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.03 16:19:00 - [14] This has always intrigued me: in the few seconds you got before you fire on the noob T1 untanked idiot with lots of stuff, how do you evaluate the worth? I mean there's thousands if items out there. Also, if a guy is carrying say one (important detail) freighter BPC how do you understand if it's an opportunity for 2B or just a BPC? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Sub Prime	Posted - 2010.02.03 17:01:00 - [15] To a decent ganker, there are a lot of benefits to the introduction of non-payout for CONCORD kills: a) Carebear haulers will think all is safe and carry higher value gear. b) Carebear haulers will think all is safe and have even less tank (to make even a BC able to alpha them). c) Fewer ninja wreck looters. There maybe more ship scanning to ensure the target can be alpha destroyed using the least expensive ship. My tempest does around a 7k alpha (with only BS 3 and LPT 3) and a Hurricane can do around 3.7k (with BC 4 & MAS 3 which could probably alpha a lot of industrials) at way less than 1/2 the price of a Tempest.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.02.03 17:50:00 - [16] Edited by: Marko Riva on 03/02/2010 17:51:05 Originally by: Paknac Queltel Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Mealamo why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a ***e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil there was 4 blue prints of 5 runs faction heatsinks but!!! when they sell for 55m each thats over 1b isk. so yeas 1b isk cargo PS you didnt read how many runs was on each bpc did you? Sounds more like 300-400mil is right. BPC value =/= Value of built item runs. That's the potential value, not the actual value of the item you hold. As a (perhaps slightly unfair, deal with it) comparison: A 10-run Rokh BPC is not worth 1b. Someone doesn't understand the difference between T1 and T2/faction. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.02.03 21:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Mograph Quote: also heard that the CSM have brought the issue up for suiciders insurance vs concord. so should be interesting. CSM CAN SUCK MY HAIRY BALLS! Suicide ganking is a part of eve and should remain a viable source of income, if they ditch insurance payouts they should ditch the sec hit as well. being -10 is a pain in the ass sometimes. Of course ganking is a part of EVE, Mr angry guy. And of course it should be a viable source of income. What it should not be, however, is a risk free gankfest. Get rid of insurance and keep the sec hit. Risk vs reward, remember. As of now, there is no risk. Even if you gank an empty ibis you don't lose any ISK. In fact, depending on the ship used, you may actually come out ahead. Loss of sec status is also a non issue since any -10 can freely go wherever they like in empire, jump in a gankship at whatever safe it's dropped off at for them, and do their nasty bit of business. I look forward to seeing what, if anything, CSM manages to get acomplished with this. Mr Epeen
Aqriue	Posted - 2010.02.04 03:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Mograph CSM CAN SUCK MY HAIRY BALLS! Suicide ganking is a part of eve and should remain a viable source of income, if they ditch insurance payouts they should ditch the sec hit as well. being -10 is a pain in the ass sometimes. You can't have the cake and eat it too. In EVE, its all about the consequences of your actions. With risk, comes the reward. Right now there is almost no loss for suiciding a BS beyond a few mill for mods, yet you can reap hundreds of millions or billions if you lucky for very little effort. With payment of insurance loss through concord agression, you have to pick your targets well (isk sink, or my npc corp gets 0% tax rate back!). And -10 is part of the the deal, if you want to shoot with impunity Counterstrike is available or if sec status is so important to you, WoW is ----> .
Kalnov Gallente Problematique Inc.	Posted - 2010.02.04 05:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Kalnov on 04/02/2010 05:02:44 Originally by: Aqriue You can't have the cake and eat it too. In EVE, its all about the consequences of your actions. With risk, comes the reward. Right now there is almost no loss for grinding missions in a BS beyond a few mill for mods, yet you can reap hundreds of millions or billions if you lucky for very little effort. With faction missions, you have to pick your targets well (isk sink, or my npc corp gets 0% tax rate back!). And +5 is part of the the deal, if you want to shoot with impunity Counterstrike is available or if sec status is so important to you, WoW is ----> . I think you see what I did there.
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2010.02.04 06:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Aqriue You can't have the cake and eat it too. In EVE, its all about the consequences of your actions. With risk, comes the reward. So you mean that haulers can't have their cake and eat it too? There has to be some give for all your pushing. If there's no insurance, then CONCORD needs to be debuffed. It's current speed at arriving, plus instant jam/neut/death. Something needs to go CONCORD has repeatedly been buffed to increase the security of haulers. All because people are too stupid to be carefull, and use the availible tools to remain safe. Blockade Runner = Unless you manage to stuff up big time, you're untouchable in highsec/lowsec. Transports around 9-10k m3 Scout = If there's 5 BS's sitting on the gate all with sensor boosters on, it's probably a gank. Deepspace Transport = Heavy buffer with a lotta cargo space. Occator can get between 50 to 75k EHP and carry 10k m3. Mastodon with 50 to 70k EHP with 17km3 hauled Freighter = A crap load of BS's to suicide gank. Obelisk has about 200k EHP with my skills Jump Freighter = Even more BS's then a freighter. Anshar has about 240k EHP, WITHOUT it's 10% to shields/armor/hull HP's per level bonus, with my skills. Has 338k EHP with my skills + Jump Frieghter lvl 4 --------------------------------------------

Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.04 07:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Marko Riva Edited by: Marko Riva on 03/02/2010 17:51:05 Originally by: Paknac Queltel Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Mealamo why even post this? lol big deal my mael got a ***e hit on you even with 2 tracking mods and scripts and imps... and no you didnt have a bil inside you stop bluffing it was more like 300-400mil there was 4 blue prints of 5 runs faction heatsinks but!!! when they sell for 55m each thats over 1b isk. so yeas 1b isk cargo PS you didnt read how many runs was on each bpc did you? Sounds more like 300-400mil is right. BPC value =/= Value of built item runs. That's the potential value, not the actual value of the item you hold. As a (perhaps slightly unfair, deal with it) comparison: A 10-run Rokh BPC is not worth 1b. Someone doesn't understand the difference between T1 and T2/faction. Yes, faction/T2 BPCs are more valuable. I know. They are still not worth 'Value of built item * run'. As I said, my Rokh example was unfair. Deal with it. (Also, I admit that 300-400mil is, on second thought, somewhat undervaluing the prints. )
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.02.04 08:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Shade Millith Edited by: Shade Millith on 04/02/2010 06:57:37 Edited by: Shade Millith on 04/02/2010 06:55:47 Originally by: Aqriue You can't have the cake and eat it too. In EVE, its all about the consequences of your actions. With risk, comes the reward. So you mean that haulers can't have their cake and eat it too? There has to be some give for all your pushing. If there's no insurance, then CONCORD needs to be debuffed. It's current speed at arriving, plus instant jam/neut/death. Something needs to go CONCORD has repeatedly been buffed to increase the security of haulers. All because people are too stupid to be carefull, and use the availible tools to remain safe. Blockade Runner = Unless you manage to stuff up big time, you're untouchable in highsec/lowsec. Transports around 9-10k m3 Scout = If there's 5 BS's sitting on the gate all with sensor boosters on, it's probably a gank. Deepspace Transport = Heavy buffer with a lotta cargo space. Occator can get between 50 to 75k EHP and carry 10k m3. Mastodon with 50 to 70k EHP with 17km3 hauled Freighter = A crap load of BS's to suicide gank. Obelisk has about 200k EHP with my skills Jump Freighter = Even more BS's then a freighter. Anshar has about 240k EHP, WITHOUT it's 10% to shields/armor/hull HP's per level bonus, with my skills. Has 338k EHP with my skills + Jump Frieghter lvl 4 Battleship = Use a fully tanked BS for it. Rohk with 170k EHP can transport 1652 m3, and most gankers won't even bother scanning it Interesting post. Let me point out something to the seemingly dense people who post like you do. Take your line "Freighter = A crap load of BS's to suicide gank. Obelisk has about 200k EHP with my skills", as an example. Sounds like a lot of ISK wrapped up in those battleships. Lets say twenty five of them at, say, 100M each. Whew! 2.5 billion. That's a lot of iskies to lose. Or is it? No. Of course not. You could gank that freighter with one hundred BSs and it would cost exactly the same amount. FREE. Wheres the risk? That freighter pilot may lose tens of billions worth of cargo, while the 25 BSs lose between them maybe a few million worth of guns which can mostly be offset by the looter/ salvager that they brought along with them. Anything they pull off the freighter is gravy. And you ****ers actually stand there with a straight face and say there is nothing wrong with this. Massive LOL Mr Epeen
Calydonian Boar	Posted - 2010.02.04 09:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha This has always intrigued me: in the few seconds you got before you fire on the noob T1 untanked idiot with lots of stuff, how do you evaluate the worth? I mean there's thousands if items out there. Also, if a guy is carrying say one (important detail) freighter BPC how do you understand if it's an opportunity for 2B or just a BPC? quick reading extensive market knowledge including contract items for your question about bpc... well you just fire the guns and hope that the dropping item is a bpo :)
Sub Prime	Posted - 2010.02.04 09:46:00 - [24] One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the time sink for gankers. Many gankers use up to 3 characters (scanner, ganker & hauler) to ensure maximum proficiency. Gankers also have to source their ships & fittings, which also takes time. They also can spend literally hours scanning ships for the right target. So it's not all pew pew for gankers (infact, with alpha shots, it's just pew). Good ones spend a lot of time setting up. Also mentioned was the sec status. Fair enough, you can be -10 and pickup and ship in space, but you're severely limited to where/how you can gank in a system. Realistically you need to be below the minimum status level for that system. i.e. in Jita > -2.0. For those gankers without access to nullsec ratting, bringing sec status up is a real chore. For those with nullsec ratting, it's still a few hours ratting to get from -2.0 to -1.0. So if anything, gankers show a lot more dedication to their job than haulers with ****ty fits do.
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2010.02.05 00:24:00 - [25] Edited by: Shade Millith on 05/02/2010 00:26:21 Originally by: Mr Epeen Interesting post. Let me point out something to the seemingly dense people who post like you do. Take your line "Freighter = A crap load of BS's to suicide gank. Obelisk has about 200k EHP with my skills", as an example. Sounds like a lot of ISK wrapped up in those battleships. Lets say twenty five of them at, say, 100M each. Whew! 2.5 billion. That's a lot of iskies to lose. Or is it? No. Of course not. You could gank that freighter with one hundred BSs and it would cost exactly the same amount. FREE. Wheres the risk? That freighter pilot may lose tens of billions worth of cargo, while the 25 BSs lose between them maybe a few million worth of guns which can mostly be offset by the looter/ salvager that they brought along with them. Anything they pull off the freighter is gravy. And you ****ers actually stand there with a straight face and say there is nothing wrong with this. Massive LOL Mr Epeen But you people still want CONCORD to arrive fast, instantly neut/jam/kill the aggressor on arrival, AND on top of that, not have it pay insurance? You want no insurance, it damn well better slow down CONCORD. Double the arrival time sounds good. --------------------------------------------
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.02.05 00:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Shade Millith Edited by: Shade Millith on 05/02/2010 00:26:21 But you people still want CONCORD to arrive fast, instantly neut/jam/kill the aggressor on arrival, AND on top of that, not have it pay insurance? You want no insurance, it damn well better slow down CONCORD. Double the arrival time sounds good. That's rich! I haven't seen the Concord response time stop any but the most imbecilic knob gobblers from successfully ganking something 99.9% of the time. Response time is a non issue when you only need to get one volley off. Please try to come up with a realistic counter argument to justify the complete free for all that the situation is now. What I am suggesting is balancing the suicide ganking mechanic, not getting rid of it. It's broken. I know it, you know it, and all the losers taking advantage know it. Why not try a productive suggestion, instead of a butt hurt whine? The whining will really start when CCP, who are not known for subtle changes, decide to set things right and you all are, "why weren't we consulted whaaaaa!". Man up 'you people' and try work for a solution instead of whinging about losing your free ticket. Mr Epeen
Sub Prime	Posted - 2010.02.05 01:43:00 - [27] There are 2 arguements here: a) From the gankers: You shouldn't expect to be safe hauling an expensive cargo in a cheap as chips T1 industrial. The problem is solved by haulers not being lazy nubs. Learn the skills and pay the price for a T2 ship if you want to haul expensive stuff around. b) From the gankees: Insurance claims ensure a gankers financial losses are minimal with failed ganks and enhances revenue for successful attempts = more targets which will give a profit to the ganker. The problem is solved by reducing/eliminating insurance payouts for CONCORD kills. This will reduce the profitability of successful ganks and also cause a major loss of unsuccessful ganks. In reality, the only guaranteed solution to being solo ganked (the VAST majority of ganks) is by using the gankers solution. Reducing/eliminating insurance claims etc certainly won't stop ganking. A by product of going for the gankees solution is that it won't teach the haulers anything. They'll just carry on hauling 100's of millions of ISK cargos in crappy T1 industrials. Look at it from a PvE perspective. Would a missioner buy a CNR and use faction modules with only the minimum SP invested in ship/missile/support skills? Sure, there might be 1 or 2 nubs that do it and lose 1bn+ worth of ship, but the vast majority will ensure they backup their investment with good skills and good mission knowledge. Why isn't it the same with haulers? Haulers have a very expensive total value being flown around, but in a crappy ship. Haulers are also more likely to be ganked by being greedy and using major trade hubs. Why not reduce the risk amazingly and sell for slightly less elsewhere? Amazingly enough, why not invest is skills and a ship that befits carrying such a valuable cargo around. Do security companies deliver/collect money from banks in a combi-van? Nope! Why? Because it will get knobbled by every Tom, **** & Harry who see a great chance for easy money. Do florists delivery flowers in a combi-van? Yes! Why? Because their cargo isn't valuable and it wouldn't be a profitable venture if they had to invest in an expensive tank of a van/lorry. The more I look at it the more I see haulers vying for the easy option when they can easily solve the problem themselves without involving CCP.
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2010.02.05 02:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Mr Epeen I haven't seen the Concord response time stop any but the most imbecilic knob gobblers from successfully ganking something 99.9% of the time. Response time is a non issue when you only need to get one volley off. It's a one volly kill because the ganker's have planned it. They have people in the right ships with the correct fittings Responce time IS an issue as if the responce time is increased, it means that less pilots/BS's are required Quote: Please try to come up with a realistic counter argument to justify the complete free for all that the situation is now. What I am suggesting is balancing the suicide ganking mechanic, not getting rid of it. Your not suggesting ballance, your suggesting "Haulers get everything". You want ballance, there has the be a ballancing act. Take some, give some. So far, over however long, it's been haulers demanding "ME ME ME". Repeated and numerious buffs to CONCORD, it's speed, it's damage, it's jamming, it's neuting and it's Drone Bandwith removal. Quote: It's broken. I know it, you know it, and all the losers taking advantage know it. Why not try a productive suggestion, instead of a butt hurt whine? The whining will really start when CCP, who are not known for subtle changes, decide to set things right and you all are, "why weren't we consulted whaaaaa!". I haven't seen a single person involved in suicide ganking crying about the current situation. The most vocal seems to be from people that haul, complaining about losing a T1 hauler with 1-2 billion in it, AFKing though empire. Quote: Man up 'you people' and try work for a solution instead of whinging about losing your free ticket. I've already outlined my solution, increase CONCORD response times. Means less people needed for a gank, but costs far more. --------------------------------------------
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.02.05 03:02:00 - [29] Originally by: Shade Millith Your not suggesting ballance, your suggesting "Haulers get everything". You want ballance, there has the be a ballancing act. Take some, give some. So far, over however long, it's been haulers demanding "ME ME ME". Repeated and numerious buffs to CONCORD, it's speed, it's damage, it's jamming, it's neuting and it's Drone Bandwith removal. Dude, you obviously haven't got a clue what I'm suggesting. It's not only you ganktards I've got barking my hole. The AFK crew are up my ass as well. I'm not suggesting no insurance for gankers, I'm suggesting no insurance, period. I'm also suggesting only one char per acct and no free trials. But that's for another thread. And good for you if the dumb asses in the untanked haulers don't learn anything. Do you really want to ruin your gravy train. That's like complaining in a bar that someone keeps putting free drinks in front of you. What I'm saying is that there should be a penalty for those who gank 'for the lulz', not those that gank for a purpose. Well there should still be a penalty. The full cost of your ship. But a smart ganker like yourself will not be dumb enough to blow up a ship full of veld, will you? Mr Epeen
Alater Caedo	Posted - 2010.02.05 04:01:00 - [30] Edited by: Alater Caedo on 05/02/2010 04:01:30 Originally by: Mr Epeen I'm also suggesting only one char per acct and no free trials. Mr Epeen THE BEST plan to get half of eve to unsub, ever.



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